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Dear, Jeff Lowrance. You are a liar.
15 years ago
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53 comments:
Will Jeff be on this conference call?
I, for one, am grateful that Mr. Snook stepped forward. I cannot afford his fee either but perhaps it will be enough to get Jeff going regardless. And, if what he says is true (and I believe it is), Jeff has enough to pay us back.
If you are reading this Jeff, why on earth don't you just pay everyone a percentage of their account followed by monthly bonuses at around 7%. That way you could slowly pay your debt off and everyone would be happy (I assume).
Simply ignoring the debt is only going to lead to the ruin of your dream!
Doesn't the U.S. Observer look an awful lot like one of Jeff's business Ideas he told us about in an email he send on 7/15/08?
"I am developing a National Legal Defense Service which helps those who are falsely prosecuted. This, alone, is worth the publishing of USA Tomorrow. Hundreds of thousands of people in this country are in jail for no reason at all. Or, because they are a "deadbeat dad" (supposedly), they are "administrative criminals" or some sort of that. They are in jail because of a plea bargain or they were railroaded somehow, and not because they received their Constitutionally-protected right to a jury trial. They were supposedly convicted of a "crime". And yet the judges and courts just don't seem to care. It is a money-making racket for them. As disgusting as this may sound, it is shown to be true that we have only 5% of the population of the world that live in the US, but yet we have 26% of the global prison population! I said that right! We are, by far, the prison capitol of the world. Friends, that is worse than Russia and China combined. And yet is there anyone doing anything about that? Yes, but very few. USA Tomorrow will greatly enhance the work of those few local patriots, by providing a national reach in our ability to help defend the defenseless. We have a growing network of great patriotic attorneys and investigative journalists who are legally pushing crooked government employees back on their heels, as they should be. These people have long track records of success, but never get any national media coverage. Government hacks overstep their authority always! But that is another subject for another day. We covered some of this topic in our first issue of USA Tomorrow. There is a more complete article coming out in the next issue."
Hey Jeff Lowrance how about living up to what you preach!!
I don't know - it sounds sort of like a scam to me with Mr. Snook playing the good cop going to save us, for a huge fee, of course. We feel grateful to get thousands less than we invested back, and they keep everything they've made with our money?
Who and what is Ed Snook, anyway?
I wonder since Jeff Lowrance professed to be a Christian and I've heard from people that know him, he's always quoting scripture. Just maybe the demon of greed got in him and took over his body. Now that the demon has control of him its not Jeff's fault anymore that we are not getting our money. Its the demons fault! We should all chip in and get an exorcist to get the demon of greed out of him. Then we won't have to pay Mr. Snook thousands of dollars. haha
Lowrence/Snook sounds like a partnership to me! What incentive does Jeff have to even act like he plans to pay us what he owes us if he & Snook can talk us into accepting a fraction of what is owed and being elated about it!? Jeff can just sit back and let his accomplice pull the wool over our eyes while he keeps all the bonus money owed to us! We won't even hear from Jeff if we act the least interested in Snook's plan! Legal action may be necessary but it should be from someone who has had no previous dealings with Jeff! He doesn't deserve to keep our bonus money!
Listen everyone... Ed Snook is not the same as Jeff Lowrance. If you have questions, call and ask. He will speak with you... Lowrance ignores you. I agree that suspicion is required given our situation but from what I have learned first hand, Ed seems like the real deal.
I agree with the last comment and that's why I initially suggested the 'outcome-based' compensation.
We are legally owed the principal plus the interest. If Jeff does not have that much money available, then we can negotiate for the rest over time.
I would urge the group to consider asking Mr. Snook to amend his process to where he will receive compensation based on the amount of the overall owed amount he retrieves. The reason for this is because several of us may not be willing or may not be able to pay anything but travel fees up front.
However, those that are represented by Mr. Snook may very likely retrieve monies. Afterward, Mr. Lowrance may just as easily see that the rest of us were unable to leverage someone to make a retrieval and thus don't have the wherewithal to make another attempt such as the one currently being made.
It would be better, then, if we were all to do this together, and contract with Mr. Snook to receive his compensation based on the negotiated amount he retrieves.
My guess would be that many of us would be willing to take payments (as some have suggested) over time. This is a difficult decision to make because, at any time, the payments might stop and we would be back at square one.
So, if Mr. Snook took the function of arbiter, and we were to ask an attorney to travel with him on our behalf to legalize the procedure, it may make it worthwhile to have this type of leverage to represent us.
Please keep in mind that Mr. Lowrance is contractually obligated by the laws of several different countries to make these payments to us. We can certainly negotiate with him, but should not allow him to pay us less than we deserve or less than we can accept.
As one last side note, if this is all legitimate on the part of Mr. Snook, it would be the VERY FIRST THING that Mr. Lowrance would ask for that we all sign non-disclosure and non-confrontational clauses regarding First Capital and any and all business interests associated with Mr. Lowrance. That would be one of the only ways he could protect himself from retaliation after the fact, specifically from us. We probably would be asked/required to sign these contracts so that, once our business dealings are done or at least moving along satisfactorily, that we could not retaliate more so than we already have.
Now, if Mr. Snook did not plan anything like this and/or Mr. Lowrance did not think about this, it makes me wonder what the real situation is? What it looks like to me is really a run-of-the-mill contract dispute where one party refuses to meet their end of a legally binding document. In instances such as this it is commonplace to hire an arbiter or an attorney to negotiate a settlement. It should be simple. Unless Mr. Snook's only methodology for retrieval is blackmail, I can't see why the above-suggested procedures should not work to both parties' advantage.
It is very interesting that you are pushing hard for this...What's in it for you?
Oh how the trust erodes.... I didn't write the idea but it seems obvious to me that it is a smart one. It prevents those of us who cannot afford to pay money to not be left out of the recovery effort basically. It also provides a larger motivation for Ed to perform as he only gets paid if he collects. Not sure how you would think there would be something in it for the person with the idea?
'Outcome Based' compensation sounds like a good idea to me.
Does Mr. Snook want his fees paid up front? Or will it be taken out of funds returned?
I have a few concerns with Mr. Snook's invitation:
- email addresses
Is the method in which he obtained our email addresses ethical? I am fine with him having it, but does this speak of his trustworthiness?
- Jeff hired him?
With all of Jeff's money and all of his lawyer connections, why would he hire a non-attorney to deal with the clients who were pursuing him?
- Demanding Accountability
The US Observer website's motto is: Demanding Accountability. Why would Mr. Snook, who claims to be passionate about demanding accountability, agree to help Jeff get out of his contractual agreements? Not only agree to help him, but fight hard enough to beat down the little guy who had a contractual agreement? What does this say of Mr. Snook?
- Who wins?
Who wins with Mr. Snook's invitation? First, Jeff wins. Jeff gets off with paying us only principal. That is a great deal for Jeff. Who wouldn't love a long term loan on that agreement? Second, Mr Snook wins. He is getting up front wire money. Very nice. Who losses? The investors. We get our principal minus Mr. Snooks fees. Those who compounded (like me) lose bad.
- "Some investors won small partial payments"
Is this true? Who has won small partial payments due to Mr. Snook's representation. Can anyone confirm that claim?
- Mr. Snook knows something important about his audience
Mr. Snook sees 500 + people who wired their money to a stranger (stranger to most of us) in Panama. I hesitate to say this, but that doesn't look well on us. And Mr. Snook knows this about us. What do we know about Mr. Snook? We know he has a history with Jeff. Should that ease our concerns?
- Jeff has the money?
Mr. Snook claims that Jeff has the money. If Jeff spent millions on his paper, and still has our principal left, then maybe his trades are for real? If they are for real, then why would we expect only our principal? Why let Jeff off so nicely? Why not negotiate the interest (or at least some interest) due to us?
- Rush
"first come first serve" "do not delay" Why doesn't Mr. Snook want us to take time to consider his proposal? What is his hurry? Is he really looking out for our best interest?
I'm not saying we can't trust Mr. Snook. I am saying that I have concerns. And, I am saying that we should set the terms of the agreements we make with him. And wiring him money up front is not in our interest. The post by Anonymous at January 14, 2009 4:22 PM has very good ideas. We may not agree with all the details of that proposal, but the idea is correct. If we act as a group, we can negotiate better terms with Mr. Snook. Better terms than wiring money to him with the hope of getting only our principal. Agree to give Mr. Snook more money than he proposed. Let's hire him to obtain our principal and interest on our terms; no up-front wire. He gets paid when we get paid.
Unfortunately, some people have already wired money to Mr. Snook. With every wire to Mr. Snook, his motivation to work with us as a group diminishes. Let's work together. Let's make Mr. Snook work for us, not the other way around.
So much for hearing from Jeff today.
Why does Mr. Snook have to do this individually. If you break down the fees, if everyone had only invested the minimum amount and he had 500 people to defend that is $500k to make a trip down there to get our initial investment back minus his fees. (Sounds like a nice little vacation to me.) This can go upwards of $5 million if everyone was fully invested.
How can he just get money for some people here in the recent past and no one else know about it. Was it people in Panama so he can make them happy so not to stir things up over there. Sounds like Mr. Snook goes to Jeff and say's "Hey the Johnson's paid the fee, we can wire them their initial investment now." Of course there is no penalty for Jeff, and for those of us that cannot afford to hire him, have to sit and wait it out, because Jeff knows that if we don't have the money to fight it, we can't do anything to him. He ends up paying out those that may be a threat. The ones with more money to hire the Lawyers. Is there a reason why Mr.Snook wont take all investors that want their money, and do this as a whole group instead of individuals. Then he can take a set amount from the entire group for fees and such. Mr. Snook is going to be pulling the money from the same accounts, why not do it all, if the money is supposed to be there. Why do it by individual people.
Sounds likes hi is trying to save Jeff for what he has done. You have to remember Jeff has lied and stolen what is not rightfully his. If the money's there it should be distributed to all that want their initial investment and interest that can be paid on some kind of payback system., but not one at a time.
It just seems convienent that Mr. Snooks comes out with an email around the same time Jeff was apparently supposed to send one out. I wonder if Jeff told Mr. Snook to send this out to buy him a little more time.
One little email Jeff that's all it takes. Be a man and step up to the plate. Save whatever dignity you have left and let the people that got you to where your at know what is happening with THEIR money.
Looks like Mr. Snooker is the only one that will come out ahead on his money grab.
I did a little digging at Google,
so far -http://strobezone.homestead.com/files/11_25_02_Steve_Andrews_html_free.htm
(ed snook as defense attorney)
http://www.nogw.com/download2/%5E8_minns_wins_again.pdf
(ed snook as experienced Journalist)
feel free to paste those links into your address bar, also do some digging yourself.
-diligent
I for one am over the whole thing. Jeff for the love of GOD, please just let everyone move on, Right now with all of the stress going on this would be a huge bright spot for 500 people. Consider this a confession if you will, much like you i made a huge mistake, i gambled with everything i had, i put it all into you. I feel so ashamed for what i have put my family through, my children are very young and the one thing i have worked so hard to shield them from i caused, the stress of where or who is going to take what away next. You can stop this for me as well as 500 other people, please follow your moral compass and set us all free. Be an example to your child and admit your mistake, amend the mistake and continue with your dream. I hope this post finds you all well.
So I guess the email that the people who were "in the know" said we would be getting on Wednesday was the Snook email and not update from Jeff...awesome!
There are too many questionable factors in play with Mr. 'Snook'. He sounds like an ambulance chaser to me. I'd feel much better in going with someone without a fuzzy connection to Jeff.
Also, I would like to attribute comments to their proper author. While you can certainly remain anonymous if you fear Jeff (which is exactly what he wants you to do), it would make communication much clearer if we could post at least our first names. Anonymous just doesn't carry much credibilty.
I fear Jeff to the extent that he is willing to renege on the agreement he has with all of us. I'm fortunate in that, even though I have a hefty sum of money invested, and a substantial amount of interest accumulated (I've been in this for a couple of years), the loss of this will not have the same sort of immediate catastrophic results that it sounds like it will for other people. I was fortunate to be able to invest an amount that was reasonable for a high risk roll of the dice and still be on track with other retirement plans (which of course are not doing that well these days).
That said, recovering the principle I invested, and even more so the substantial sum of interest, will change the next ten years of my life significantly.
So for an unstable and dishonest person to have the ability to inflict these kinds of changes on me, while securing themselves behind a hazy, mysterious veil, well that is a little scary.
Yes, I agree, Snook was Jeff's Wednesday's communication! And Jeff is just grinning to see how many go for it and let him keep all the interest that he promised to his investors. He is so rotten!!
Now it's time to let Jeff know, via those who communicate with him, that he has until Monday, the 19th, to have COMPLETED a sizeable payment to every investor (and yes, he'd better get right on it as Monday is a holiday!) or there is an investigative reporter FROM "USA Today" that is just waiting for a another scam story, as they are so popular these days! We've waited far too long for any credable effort from Jeff and the money is truly ours! "It's MY money and I want it NOW!!"
Can't wait for the conference call tonight! Jan
I have also been in contact with a reporter from the Chicago Tribune. So Monday no communication i say we start talking.
What other areas are there where Jeff wants to be influential? He seems to want to have a presence with the Ron Paul folks. Maybe we can contact Ron Paul and convince him that Jeff Lowrance is reflecting very poorly on him. Maybe Ron Paul would actually be willing to express himself on this.
I would certainly think USA Today would love to expose him, given that they traded lawsuits over the name "USA Tomorrow". If theft, graft, and dishonesty are his version of tomorrow's USA, I'll take a pass, thank you very much.
He is offering investigation on something that he has no legal qualifications to do so. (If you really want to spend more money then send me your money and I will surf the internet for free information to scare you all)
This is a serious violation of our privacy!
You have given all our emails to this guy without our consent which is against CANSPAM regulations.
He contacted us directly without permission which is also violation of CANSPAM regulations.
He has automatically ubscribed us to his email list which is a violoation of CANSPAM regulations.
This is an internet marketing tactic. He is taking free infrmation and formatting it for profit. He will make thousands off of several hours of work and you will end up with more fear. Sounds like a pretty good job.
There has been no leagally legitimat offer made and you would be foolish to take this offer.
I think everyone needs to calm down just a bit. Let's have the call tonight and see what the group wants to do. Also, please don't do anything until we are all on board. I feel that as a group we are likely to make a wiser decision.
Sounds to me like Snook and Jeff are two birds who flock together. I think Snook is part of the scam!
I met with a lawyer about this matter this morning. We can talk about it on the call. Just to let you know how ridiculous the fees that Snooks is asking---if their are one hundred of us taking part in the action, (we would pay according to the amount owed us, but lets say we didn't) It would cost roughly 250 bucks each to get a law firm working on this that specializes in this kind of action on the case. Worst case we have to come up with 500-700 each if it gets crazily complicated. Now, lets say we have 300 folks. We pay less--you do the math. I am not saying that you can't use Ed if you want. I don't understand where he gets his leverage from--just publicizing it in the paper? We could do that. From his personal connection to Jeff? Jeff doesn't seem to give damn about anyone but himself.
Legal pressure doesn't mean that it drags on and on. It could produce the pressure needed to threaten to make him miserable enough that he realizes how difficult life is going to be for him. We could settle. If not, and the money is still around, then I think the legal solution is now our best chance. I think relying wholly on Ed is a mistake, and you may be throwing good money after bad.
I have been asked to post this. Ed Snook will join our conference call tonight. More information will be posted by the blog admin later today. Please do not take any action until after this call.
I will not be on the conference call-some one please ask when Snook last had contact with Jeff and clarify why he thinks he would be successful. Also as a "class" as in class action suit we would be way more effective than individuals.
Snook should try to get ALL of our money back prin + interest as contracted, then if he does that take his fees from the same.
I personally think that the fees that Ed Snook is charging are absolutely insane. He is feeding on the weak and taking advantage of people in great need. He hasn't even shown proof that he can help, or how deep his connection is with Jeff. I think everyone should be offended by him and this whole thing looks like another one of Jeff's ploys to suck more money out of people. Talk to a lawyer and find out what they think, and I bet you'll all agree. CROOK!
Why doesn't everyone at least give Ed Snook a chance. Hear him out tonight and reserve judgement until then. As for what I have learned, I am thrilled to have him on board. I do not think we should be villifying him at this point without basis.
I think a good point was made earlier. If Ed can get money out of Jeff, why not get the whole amount owed to people since he knows the money is there, because apparently he has gotten it for others. Why only settle on the initial investment. If he can get the initial why not get more of (OUR) money. I think he could make more money off of us if he gets the interested owed to us also. I think people would be willing to part with it a little easier.
I will not be able to make it tonight eiter, can someone please take good notes.
Ed's "fuzzy" connection is what gives him so much power over Jeff.
Where in Ed's letter does it say that hiring him means we are giving up all of our interest?
If Ed get me my principle back sooner than Jeff's timeline, then I will still expect my interest from Jeff over time.
FCSL Client-I would say that if Ed contracts to only get your principal back and Jeff agrees to do that--Jeff could easily claim this was a settlement and be done with it. You need to be very careful what you authorize your agents to do on your behalf as their actions can be binding on you as well.
Also I talked with a couple friends last night that have been compounding and had NO CLUE there was a problem. So do the people that didn't get contacted as I have talked to a few already that never got Ed's letter and some don't get the trades--email list seems to have holes.
Jeff is contractly liable to deliver and to not do otherwise is a breach of contract action. Snook is seeking compensation to attempt to do what Jeff should do already.
What Snook should do is simply talk to Jeff and ask him to COMMUNICATE WITH US. If Snook is so close to Jeff why can't he simply ask him to do that?
Also if Jeff and his employees monitor this blog and the conf it won't be a surprise what Snook is trying to do and what leverage does he have over Jeff that a contract does not have and legal action.
I would suggest that Mr Snook put in writing any contract for services he intends to perform on person's behalf if you decide to do that.
If he has the list he could easily scan it and send it to everyone.
I am reserving judgment until I isten tonight but I have doubts over his charges, his leverage and his motives, but I will keep an open mind.
why does this just sound like another scam--send me a little money and I'll send you more money, anyone heard of that before?! over email no less!
This guy snooks ( self proclaimed Smart guy) seems as phony as jeff. I would not give him a Dime before he delivers.
What I am looking for
1) Full payment of My Prinicipal Plus the fully earned Interest as per the contract I had with Jeff.
2) I would have waited Normally to get this Back over a period of tie. But Now I will take it As quickly as I can get it.
I am not willing to get snookered in by any 2 bit reporter that preaches morals and is in bed with Jeff and uses this scam to create profit for himself and allow Jeff to wesel out ofhis obligations.
I suggets we go get a debt collector to go after Jeff. I want to make his life as miserable as possible and not let him off the hook for a single dime.
I agree on one thing from an earlier post. We have to do this as a group if we have any chance of payoff.
I will Call in and listen to see which way this goes. Trying hard to keep an open mind but having a hard time with mr. Snooker's letter. SOunds toomuch like Jeff's buddy trying to help him more than us.
Peace out.
Warrior, you got it. This is Jeff's attempt to weasel out of his legal and moral obligations as much as possible and get his buddy snooks some extra moola to boot.
The arrangement Snooks is attempting to make is illegal in so many ways...unless he has the blessing of Jeff.
It's hard to imagine watching for years the success of Jeff's program, payments coming in smooth, returns as expected and look at us now. Many are reaady to take less than principle, others are clamouring to the hope of getting their interest over the course of years.
Jeff made a few mistakes as of late, but he will commit to making it right as promised - that being every single dime owed his investors over a reasonable timeframe.
We helped Jeff build his lifelong dream and he has made tens of millions on top of his promised payouts to us and his traders.
The only solution is for Jeff to present a workable resolution that keeps him honorable with us, the authorities and the good lord himself.
Snooks isn't the guy to do it. It must come from Jeff's heart and it will.
I agree..... well said ...FAITH
How do I get on Ed's email list or the investor email list?
I listened to the call, listened to Ed. I am much less optimistic about Ed being any magic bullet in this deal.
This deal stinks to high heaven.
At this point, we have absolutely no evidence that Jeff has made the decision to run.
All the talk from others about their being legal remedy to such fraud case was totally smashed by Mr. Snook. He makes it clear there is no legal remedy. Mr. Snooks simply is going to threaten him and his reputation.
Mr. Snooks is only going to make it more difficult for everyone else.
If Jeff and Snooks are not in cahoots, then Jeff would be smart to rub it in to Snooks by waiting until Jan. 29 to start sending everyone some money and Snooks becomes obsolete, yet all who paid Snooks don't get that money back.
There is no reason to "go after" Jeff. Jeff just needs to get himself together and get on the path of righteousness. He has the money, he has the ability to work out a payment plan. He has every incentive to figure this thing out for his own good, not because someone threatens him.
Let's quit assuming Jeff is refusing to pay us and running away with the money. We need to be encouraging Jeff to open the line of communication and begin the process and support Jeff's ability and willingness to satisfy his loyal investors.
Say no to Ed, no confidence there.
We are Jeff's friends. He may be burning bridges left and right, but he still has a good brain, a good heart that can be mended and he still has a chance at keeping us as friends, investors and supporters. He needs that. I agree with faith, reach out and let him know we are still on his side, not against him.
All Jeff has to do to end this is send an email and start wiring at least a portion of people's money back. I could almost guarantee that everyone would willing accept the following:
1. 50% immediate return of principle.
2. 5% per month payments until all is paid off.
Some may even want to stay involved...
Jeff... pull your head out and make us an offer!
I agree that if Jeff makes good on our agreements that if asked, I'll be happy to say that Jeff may be exasperating, but he makes good on his word.
The lines of communication have always been open. It's only Jeff that has kept them closed.
Jeff - talk to us. Tell us how this all gets resolved and get the burden off all our shoulders, and yours.
Jeff has lost it. January 5th was the promised magic date. He knew we were counting on him coming thru and he totally blew us off....again. To say he has a good heart and brain flies in the face of his actions. One could claim that all criminals have a good heart and brain, so what. They're still criminals. He knows how easy it would be to regain our trust and he just does not care.
It angers me to have to pay so much money to Mr. Snook to get my money back, but who is making a better offer? I am all ears.
Did anyone else catch the inconsistency in Ed's comments? He had 6 clients, then all the sudden he had 80? I think he wants to make people think that more people are signing on with him than really are.
Also, since Jeff is bringing Ed's good name down with him, he has no intention of fighting back? He only seems interested in bringing Jeff down when our money is involved, or a portion of our money is anyway?
Personally, I do not believe one word this guy says. I think as long as we have a large group of individuals that want to take action together (not through Ed Snooks) we still have power. If Jeff can't return to Panama right now, lets make him wanted in the USA too! Today, not tomorrow!!
Missed the conference call--catching up--so who is not allowed in Panama? Jeff or Snook?
HELLO- threats and intimidation are the only results Snook seems to offer. He says legal action won't work. There have been WAY BIGGER FISH brought ot justice than Jeff-ask Madoff and many others.
Plus I agree with the crowd it seems , Jeff is still obligated and even if he settles with 6 or 80 if he cheats one person , 1) he has to live with it 2) he becomes a criminal and 3) his dream is dead 4) he will not be allowed int he US as a criminal
I am all for encouraging Jeff-he can still make everything right. COME ON JEFF throw us a bone here!
Ed points out that he was able to bring down a judge and others who have apparently done things he believes are wrong. Who paid him to bring that judge down? Why did he bring the judge down? Sounds like he "brings people down" because they do wrong and he wants to expose them.
In this case, however, Ed won't "bring down Jeff" because he's done wrong, but he'll threaten to if Jeff doesn't give the principle back to whoever pays Ed thousands of dollars, with no guarantee of any results.
In one sentence he says he doesn't care whether we sign with him or not, that we're the ones who wired our money to someone in Panama. In the next sentence he says how much his heart aches for all we've been through because of this.
The fact remains that if Jeff gives the principle back to those who've paid Ed thousands of dollars (according to the plan as presented) then Ed will extract himself from all of this and have no issue with Jeff ripping off hundreds of people.
This sounds like protection money to me.
Apparently, Jeff is not allowed in Panama right now due to another lawsuit.
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